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  • 執筆者の写真WELWEL

Rep Kushida questions PM Abe English translation and Japanese transcript


私たちが児童犏祉法や児童虐埅防止法改正に向けお、児童の暩利条玄の勉匷をしお頂いおいる䞲田議員が、阿倍総理から問題意識を匕き出したした。

https://www.kizuna-cpr.org/diet-feb-25-2019-kushida-questions- Diet Feb 25 2019 Rep Kushida questions PM Abe

English translation and Japanese transcript

䞋に日本語版あり

Transcript - English translation

The 198th Diet session, House of Representatives, Budget Committee, intensive discussion hearing

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16:31–17:00 pm February 25, 2019

Mr. Seiichi Kushida (Japan Innovation Party)

Seiichi Kushida Member of the House of Representatives:

Yes, I am Seiichi Kushida belonging to the Japan Innovation Party.




I think a country that is friendly to animals is probably gentle to humans as well. Also, I think a country that is unfriendly to animals is probably ungentle to humans, and I would like to ask about the next issue about children.

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I'm showing you the second panel. This is the [UN] Convention on the Rights of the Child (the CRC), which has been discussed frequently as a matter of corporal punishment to discipline children recently (*1). Japan has signed the CRC in 1994. And there are 196 countries that agree with this. Now that there are less than 200 countries in the world, so it is no exaggeration that almost all countries agree with this treaty. From the CRC, today I have excerpted four articles from the text, among other things. Firstly, Article 4 states that this convention should be legislative and administrative measures, this is usual. Beyond signing the treaty, let's maintain its law properly in the country.

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Among them, today I'm showing Article 7 and Article 18. According to these Articles, the child is educated by parents, Article 7. In Article 18, it is supposed that parents have joint responsibility for child rearing and development. Each country keeps trying to do this diligently.

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Next, please see the third panel, when it is asked what is "rearing together," it will be called joint parental authority. In Japan, this means that parents have joint parental authority during marriage. After divorce, joint parental authority is common for G7 countries other than Japan; it does not change. However, Japan alone has had sole parental authority. Though this is written as "G7 countries other than Japan,” when I thought about writing "most countries," it was suggested "most countries” is ambiguous, so I put it as "G7 countries other than Japan.” As far as "most countries" are concerned, 196 countries agree that parents jointly rear [their children] as written in the CRC. That is why it is commonplace for a country where this treaty is concluded to have joint parental authority. To say that, searching for a country with a different parental authority is searching for a country that has not concluded the treaty, or searching for a country that has not kept their promises despite signing the treaty. Then, as you can see, it cannot be helped [to conclude] but that Japan does not keep promises.

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At the last budget committee hearing, I cited the "Oooka Judgment" as an example of what kind of problem this is. Parents come to Oooka Echizen(*2) saying I'm the one who should be the PARENT who gets custody. Oooka Echizen have the parents pull the child’s hands from both sides. Then, when the child cries it hurts, one parent releases the child’s hand. So, when the other parent says, "I did it" and takes the child away, Oooka Echizen said the parent who releases the hand when the child cries should be the PARENT. Now I thought that the Japanese system gives priority to pulling out the hand of a child, but there is one thing to add. Certainly, it is parental love when the child cries ‘it hurts,’ and the parent lets go of the child. Well, in the case of Oooka Echizen, it is written like a bad guy who continued pulling the child’s hand, but I don't think so. No matter how much the child cries, even though it hurts, I think that parents who are pulling the child’s hand while shedding tears think that only he can make this child happy again. In essence, who is the person who suffers most while being pulled by both parents? It's the child. Therefore, let's stop fighting like this; just as in the CRC, we will nurture children jointly. Isn't it the CRC to stop such a dispute of deciding one or the other?

Minister of Justice, why does Japan have sole parental authority?

Chairperson: Minister of Justice Takashi Yamashita.

Takashi Yamashita Minister of Justice:

I will answer. Regarding interpretation of provisions of the CRC, it is not under our jurisdiction. However, we think domestic law is defined and operated according to the principle of the CRC. And first of all, to tell you the reason why there is sole parental authority after divorce in our country, parental authority has a special meaning in the civil law. In the civil law, the person who has parental authority should decide on custody and education, on property management, or on determining residence. This kind of thing includes exercising timely and appropriate parental authority. In the case where parents are divorced and do not live in a communal life, it is thought that it is difficult to exercise communication properly between parents, eventually making it impossible to make decisions, and it is difficult to exercise appropriate parental authority in a timely manner. There are also things that husband and wife cannot expect cooperation and exercise parental authority in the first place, as in the case where emotional confrontation between parents is deep-rooted. From these points, there is sole parental authority after divorce, but the current law amended in Heisei 23 (2011) states that when parents divorce in consultation, the parents determine [the following]l by consultation: the custodian of the child, parent-child meetings and other meetings, the allocation of expenses required for custody, other necessary matters concerning the custody of the child, the child's interest is the highest priority to be considered, and when the consultation is not completed, the family court will determine these. In such a way, we are steadily working on the interests of this child.

Chairperson: Mr. Kushida.

Seiichi Kushida Member of the House of Representatives:

Every time, it is truly miserable to hear the reason. We cannot talk to each other because it's too emotional. Other countries, don't they do it? Is it that only Japanese are emotional citizens? Every time I receive such an explanation, I feel sorry very much. And on the 7th of this month, a recommendation was made by the United Nations Child Rights Committee. At the last diet committee hearing, Minister Kono also translated this. I also copied the phrase to summarize it as "amend the law to approve joint parental authority,” this is a recommendation.

Minister Kono, how is Japan currently in violation of the CRC?

Chairperson: Foreign Minister Mr. Taro Kono.

Foreign Minister Taro Kono:

The CRC stipulates that the State Party shall make best efforts to ensure recognition of the principle that parents are jointly responsible for the care and development of the child. There is no stipulation of an explicit statement about the introduction of a joint parental authority system.

Chairperson: Mr. Kushida.

Seiichi Kushida Member of the House of Representatives:

Last year there was a letter of protest from the 26 EU countries to former Minister Kamikawa, and this time the recommendation was issued by the UNCRC. Despite these facts, the government insists that this country does not violate the treaty, like Foreign Minister Kono. I think that this is a sad thing. And as the reason for that, parents cannot communicate with each other because they are too emotional. Every country is doing this. Why is it that only Japan cannot do that? I truly think that it is sad.

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And, I mentioned earlier about pulling from both [parents]. What is the meaning of pulling? This happens on the mother's side a lot. Then, the pulling mother will keep telling the child that your father is a terrible person. The reason she is doing so is to decide only one custodial person. When the father subsequently submits to family court a motion to determine the parental authority, an inspector comes from the family court. Although the inspector sees the current environment of the child, it is very important to check the child's will. At that time, if a child says that he wants to return to his father's place, the mother who took the child should return the child. Because of her sense of such a crisis, the mother has to keep saying to the child that "Your father is a terrible man; he did terrible things to me; when someone comes, you should say, 'I don't want to return because I'm scared.' " This is to have the child say so. She will have no choice but to do this kind of thing.

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Even so, I do not think the mother is doing something wrong. Although other countries have properly joint parental authority, this country requires deciding sole parental authority, because this country has sole parental authority and sole custody, this is a fight between mother and father. So, parents have to keep doing such kind of things.

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It is said that children to whom such things are done tend to contract mental disorders as proven by the WHO. A child who keeps being told so by the mother that he/she may look like Dad. While looking at the mirror, how does the child feel about looking like the father who is being spoken about badly? I would like you to think about the child’s feeling.

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And the father, he will not be able to meet the child. Since the mother may lose the parental right by allowing child and father to meet after the abduction, she hides the child after all. It is said that the suicide rate of fathers who cannot meet their child is high.

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And, it is not just father or mother. Even Grandpa and Grandma lose their grandchild. If there is joint parental authority and joint custody, the child will be raised gently with the paternal and maternal grandparents. However, since parental authority is taken only by one side, child-parent meeting is absolutely not accepted. When it comes to such a thing, grandpa and grandma cannot even meet their adorable grandchild.

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And the mother, who doesn't want to lose the child, who doesn't let the child to meet even if she wants to do so, will become a single-parent family. Doing so will make life more difficult. As a father, it is very dissatisfying because even if he covers his child support expenses, he cannot meet his child. If it is joint custody, he will try to pay more than the child-care expenses, and in case of grandpa and grandma, they would like to buy a school bag or to give a cram school fee, etc. If it is a single-parent family that needs public welfare, it is tax that supports that life. There is nothing good about any of this.

Prime Minister Abe, in such circumstances, I would like to hear your frank opinions now.

Chairperson: Before that, from the Minister of Justice. Shortly please.

Takashi Yamashita Minister of Justice:

I answer as a premise. What Mr. Kushida has pointed out now are the right to meet children, and parental authority that is the right to decide residence, education, and so on. I think it is necessary to distinguish them.

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Regarding parental authority, certainly, we have to decide on either [parent], so I explained that there are reasons for such legislation of sole parental authority to decide residence, education, and so on.

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On the other hand, as for the right of meeting or not, for example as I mentioned earlier, in the revision of the civil law in Heisei 23 (2011), let me point out that it is clearly stated in the Civil Code that, it is necessary to decide required matters of sharing the expenses required for visitation and subsequent meeting or custody at the time of divorce by consultation, when the consultation is not settled, the court declares them.

Chairperson: Prime Minister Abe. Are you going to ask questions, Mr. Kushida?

Seiichi Kushida Member of the House of Representatives:

I will ask you again one more time later, but in reality, foreign countries are having a lot of hardships.

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In the United States, a person named James Cook, who is called the father of joint custody, started the movement from California. At that time, it was still sole [custody]. In 1979, the Joint Custody Statute came into effect [in California], now it has been applied in 50 States.

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In fact actually, Germany also had sole parental authority. However, since the Federal Constitutional Court ruled in a judgment in 1982 that it is unconstitutional, they were going to develop legislation for joint parental authority in the country.

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Every country has a hard time since it is hard to communicate in the manner of the situation of breaking up. But as a child's right, children wonder what is happy, and didn’t the world make the CRC by gathering wisdom from each other? So, Japan also ratified this, did it not?

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I'm not trying to impose my idea. Because the world is doing it, does not mean that I will try to imitate it. Japan concluded this treaty in 1994. We have received recommendations from the United Nations repeatedly that we do not comply with it. I think it is necessary as a responsibility of the government to comply with this.

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And last year, there was a non-compliant citation in a report of the Hague Convention (US DoS annual Hague compliance report). This is about parental child abduction from other countries to Japan. Such things happen rampantly in Japan because parental abduction is the most effective way, so parents abduct their children from foreign countries.

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And the US criticized Japan for it, very strongly. It is a criticism of this non-compliant country. The word at the time is "abduction"(*3). This is kidnapping, it is the same as having been cited by the United States as a recidivist country of abduction. In a way like this, the Minister for Foreign Affairs said that there is no contravention of the treaty earlier, it is not a matter of whether this country is non-compliant or not. The US thinks it is non-compliant, Europe thinks it is non-compliant. I think that we humbly need to follow these kinds of issues.

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I'm not criticizing the Abe administration. It was at the time of the coalition cabinet in 1994 when this treaty was concluded. The LDP & Komeito administration could not settle these issues. The Democratic Party of Japan administration could not settle it either. Because these are very difficult tasks, for child abduction, we have to make criminal penalties for disposition. On the other hand, we have to protect the DV victims too. Other countries are doing it with sharing wisdom, but Japan puts the burden to the forefront. Therefore, the status quo will be maintained, so parental child abduction will be rampant. Then, parental child abduction becomes the most effective means.

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Prime Minister Abe, Umm.., now, I'd like you to think about what kind of young people are good for the young people who support Japan. On one hand, even if the parents are separated because of various reasons, those children who receive nurturing from both parents are better to support Japan. On the other hand, those children who keep being told that your father is a bad man, is it better for children like this to hate a real parent, to grow up, and support Japan? Prime Minister Abe, as we have concluded this treaty, please declare clearly that you are proceeding to a law amendment that obeys this treaty before the people who are watching.

Chairperson: Prime Minister Abe.

Prime Minister Abe:

Regarding the treaty, Minister Kono answered about whether Japan is fulfilling its obligation or not. Minister of Justice Yamashita answered about the viewpoint of the government, and apart from parental authority, we are dealing with the matter of parent-child meetings.

Meanwhile, as I'm listening to the story of Kushida, I also feel that "it is reasonable.” I can understand well that as a child, he/she would like to see the father as well as the mother, would like to see mom and dad, I feel like that. With regard to this issue, we have discussions today, taking into account the situation of discussions at the Diet. I would like to consider dissemination at the Ministry of Justice under the jurisdiction of the Civil Code.

Chairperson: Mr. Kushida.

Seiichi Kushida Member of the House of Representatives:

Yes, since I think Prime Minister Abe has various worries, so please join us for our party's Future Co-Creation lab. Then, I think Mr. Urano who is sitting next to me will reply with heartfelt answers. I would like you to consider all means. As time has come [to an end], my questions are over. Thank you very much.

Chairperson: With this, Mr. Kushida's session has ended.

*1: Japanese news media focuses the 2019, 7th Feb. UNCRC recommendation as a matter of corporal punishment only.

"Even if it is light, corporal punishment should be completely banned, CRC"

(https://www.nhk.or.jp/politics/articles/statement/14018.html)

"Complete ban of corporal punishment, Recommendation of legislation by the UNCRC"

(https://www.asahi.com/articles/ASM277DCTM27UHBI03V.html)" The UN 'Japan to improve anti corporal punishment law for Children' "

(http://www.news24.jp/articles/2019/02/08/10416485.html)

*2: Oooka Echizen is a judge who lived in the Edo era (about 300 years ago). He is famous in period dramas.

*3: The Japanese word corresponding to "Parental child abduction" is more like "child taking away" or "parent separately with child".

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Transcript creation date: March 1, 2019

Copy creator: Kizuna CPR (https://www.kizuna-cpr.org/)

Related articles: "The Supreme Court of Japan has decided not to judge (to ignore) the arguments raised about violation of the Constitution of Japan, UNCRC, and the principle of the Hague Abduction Convention caused by parental child abduction within Japan."

(https://www.kizuna-cpr.org/supreme-court-of-japan-not-judging)

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反蚳曞

第回囜䌚 衆議院 予算委員䌚 集䞭審議

2019幎2月25日午埌16:31-17:00

質疑者 䞲田 誠䞀日本維新の䌚

議長䞲田さん。

䞲田誠䞀衆議院議員

 はい、日本維新の䌚の䞲田誠䞀です。

   䞭略  

 動物に優しい囜は、おそらく人間にも優しい、ず思いたす。たた、動物に優しくなければ、人間にも優しくないず思っおるんですが、次に子どものこずに぀いお、お聞きをしたいず思いたす。

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 パネルの枚目を、お瀺し臎したす。これは、子どもの暩利条玄、最近、躟ずいうこずで子どもの暩利条玄に぀いおは、よく議論をされおいるわけですけれども、子の暩利条玄に関しおは、日本は幎に締結をしおいたす。そしお、これに賛同しおいる囜は、カ囜。今、䞖界で䜕カ囜あるかずいったら匱ですから、ほが党おの囜が、この条玄に賛同しおいるずいっおも過蚀ではありたせん。その䞭で、今日は、぀の条文を抜粋をさせお頂きたした。条文の䞭でも、その䞭でも、これは抜粋しおるんですが、たず条は、この条玄を、立法措眮、行政措眮をしたしょう、これ圓たり前のこずです。条玄を締結した以䞊は、囜内でその法埋をちゃんず敎備したしょう。

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 その䞭で、今日は条ず条あげさせお頂きたしたが、これによるず、児童は父母によっお教育をされる、条ですね。条は、児童の逊育及び発達は父母が共同責任を持぀ずいうこずになっおるわけです。これを各囜はちゃんず䞀生懞呜守っおる。

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 今床、パネルの枚目を芋お頂きたいんですが、共同で逊育をするずいうこずはどういうこずかずいったずきに、共同芪暩ずいうこずになりたす。婚姻䞭、これは日本も共同で芪暩を持぀、擁護するずいうこずになるんですが、離婚埌、これはのうち日本以倖はこれは共同芪暩ですね。倉わらないんです。ずころが、日本だけは、単独芪暩になっおしたっおいるんです。でこれ「のうち日本以倖」ず曞いおありたすけれど、「ほずんどの囜」ずいう颚に曞こうず思ったら「ほずんどの囜」では曖昧ず蚀われたので、以倖ずいったんですが、なぜこれ「ほずんどの囜」ずいえるかずいえば、先ほどの子䟛の暩利条玄にも曞かれおいるように、共同で逊育をするずいうこずを、ヶ囜は賛同しおるっお事なんです。ずいうこずは、共同芪暩になるずいうのがこの条玄を締結しおる囜ずしお、圓たり前なんですよ。ずいうこずはね、これを違う単独芪暩の囜を探すずいうこずは、条玄締結をしおいない囜を探すか、条玄を締結しおいるにも関わらず玄束を守っおない囜を探すしかないんです。そうするず、これご芧に頂きたすように、日本は玄束を守っおいないず蚀わざるを埗たせん。

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 前回の予算委員䌚においお、これがどういう問題かずいうこずで、「倧岡裁き」ずいう䟋を挙げさせお頂きたした。䞀人の子䟛を、自分が芪だず蚀っお、手を..やっおきたので、倧岡越前が、䞡方から手を匕っ匵らせる。そうするず、子䟛は痛いず蚀ったずころ、片方の芪が手を離す。で、片方の芪が「やった」ず蚀っお連れ去ろうずしたら、倧岡越前が、その子䟛が痛いず蚀っお手を離した方が芪なんだよ。今、日本は、子の手を匕っ匵っおいく方が優先されるずいう制床だずいう話をさせお頂いたんですが、ここは䞀぀ですね、付け加えなければいけないこずがあるんです。確かに、子䟛が痛いず蚀っお手を攟したのも芪心です。じゃあ、倧岡越前のずきには匕っ匵っお行った方が悪者のように曞かれおるんですけれども、そうじゃないず思うんですよ。どんなに子䟛が泣き叫がうずも、痛がろうずも、自分がこの子䟛をやはり幞せにできるのは自分しかいないず思っお涙を流しながら手を匕っ匵っおる芪も芪心だず思うんです。芁は子䟛、䞡方から芪心で匕っ匵っおいお䞀番苊しむのは誰ですか。子䟛ですよ。だから、こんな争いをするのやめたしょう、ずいっお子どもの暩利条玄では、共同で逊育をする。どちらか䞀方を決めるずいうそういう争いをやめようずいうのが、子どもの暩利条玄じゃないんですか。

 法務倧臣、どうしお日本は単独芪暩になっおいるんでしょうか。

議長法務倧臣山䞋貎叞さん。

山䞋貎叞法務倧臣

 お答え臎したす。児童の暩利条玄の条文の解釈に぀きたしおは 所管倖ずいうこずではあるんですが、ただですね、我々ずしおは児童の暩利条玄の趣旚に沿っお囜内法を、定矩あるいは運甚しおいるずいうふうに考えおおりたす。そしお、たずは我が囜におけるですね、離婚埌は単独芪暩にしおいるずいう理由に぀いおお䌝えいたしたすず、たずは芪暩にはですね、これは特別な意味が民法䞊ございたしお、民法䞊、子の監護や教育に関する意思決定をしなければない、あるいは財産管理の暩限、あるいは居所を定める暩限、ずいうものは芪暩者が定めるずいうこずになっおおりたす。こういったこずかなずいうのは、適時適切な暩限の行䜿、これが必芁なものが含たれおいるわけでございたすが、父母が離婚しお共同生掻を送っおいない堎合には、父母間で意思疎通をうたく図れずに、結局、意思決定ができないような状態、適時適切な芪暩の行䜿が難しいずいうこずもあるず考えられたす。特に父母間の感情的な察立が根深い堎合のように、そもそも倫婊が協力しお芪暩を行䜿するこずを期埅するこずはできない、ずいうこずもございたす。そういったこずから単独芪暩ずいうこずに、離婚埌はなっおおるわけでございたすが、珟行法におきたしおも平成幎の改正の際にですね、父母が協議䞊の離婚する時には、子の監護をすべき者あるいは面䌚その他の亀流、子の監護に芁する費甚の分担、その他子の監護に぀いお必芁な事項は協議で定める、子の利益を最も優先しお考慮する、あるいは協議が敎わないずきには家庭裁刀所がこれを定める、ずいうような圢で、この児童の利益、それをしっかりず図っおいるずころでございたす。

議長䞲田さん。

䞲田誠䞀衆議院議員

 毎回ですね、その理由を聞いお本圓に情けなく思いたすよ。感情的になっお話し合いができない。他の囜、やっおるじゃないですか。日本だけが感情的な囜民なんですか。私は、ずっおも、そういう説明を受けるたびに残念でなりたせん。そしお、今月の日ですか、囜連の子どもの暩利委員䌚から勧告がなされたした。前回の委員䌚で、河野倧臣から、これも蚳を蚀っお頂きたした。䞀字䞀句、私の方も曞き写したんで芁玄したすず、共同芪暩を認めるため法什を改正しなさい、こういう勧告ですよ。

 河野倧臣、珟圚日本は、この子どもの暩利条玄に違反しおる囜ですかどうですか。

議長倖務倧臣、河野倪郎さん。

倖務倧臣河野倪郎

 この児童の暩利条玄は、児童の逊育及び発達に぀いお父母が共同の責任を有するずいう原則に぀いおの認識を確保するよう、締玄囜が最善の努力を払うこずを芏定したものにすぎず、離婚埌の共同芪暩制床の導入に぀いお明文の芏定は存圚したせん。

議長䞲田さん。

䞲田誠䞀衆議院議員

 昚幎はですね、カ囜から圓時の䞊川倧臣に察しお抗議の文が出され、そしお今回は囜連から子どもの暩利委員䌚によっお勧告が出され、にもかかわらず、河野倖務倧臣のように自分たちの囜はこの条玄に違反しおないんだ、ずこう蚀い匵っおいる。ずっおもこれは悲しいこずだず思いたす。そしおその理由ずしおは、感情的だから話ができない。すべおの囜がやっおるんですよ。なんで日本だけができないんですか。本圓にそれは悲しいず思いたす。

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 そしお、先ほど子䟛をですね、䞡方から匕っ匵り合うずいうこずはどういうこずかっおいたすず、匕っ匵っお行った、これ、お母さんが倚いんですけれども、匕っ匵っおいった偎がどういうこずをそれからするかっおいうず、子䟛に察しお、あなたの父芪はずんでもない人なんだよっおいうのを、蚀い続けるんです。なんでそうかっおいたすずね、これ䞀人を決めるこずですから、その埌父芪から家庭裁刀所に察しお、芪暩者の確定の申し立おを受けたずきには、家庭裁刀所から調査官がやっおきたす。調査官が子䟛の今の環境を芋たりしたすけれども、子䟛の意思確認ずいうのも非垞に重芁芖しおるんですよ。その時に子䟛が、お父さんのずこに垰りたいよ、ず蚀われたらば、連れおきたお母さんは、その子䟛を返さなきゃいけない、ずいうそういう危機感があるので、䞀生懞呜その子䟛に察しお、あなたの父芪はひどい男なんだ、私にもひどいこずしたんだ、ずいい続けお誰か来た時には怖いから行きたくないっお蚀うんだよ、こういうこずね、やらざるを埗なくなっちゃう。

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それはね、やっおるほうのお母さんが私は悪いず思わないです。この囜が、どちらか䞀方を決めるずいう、各囜はちゃんず共同芪暩にしおるのに、この囜だけが単独芪暩であり単独監護であるから、これは戊いなんですよ、お父さんずお母さんの。だから、そういうこずをやり続けなければならないんです。

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これをやられた子䟛はどうなのかず蚀いたすず、心的障害を受けるっおこずはでも蚌明されおいたすし、あるいは、そうやっおお母さんからそういう颚に蚀われおいる子䟛が、もしかしたら“お父さん䌌”の顔をしおいたかもしれない、その時に鏡を芋ながら、ずっず悪く蚀われおるお父さんに䌌おくるずいうこずの気持ちずいうものも、私は考えお頂きたいず思うんです。

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 そしお、このお父さん、子䟛に䌚えなくなる。なぜならば、連れお行かれたずきに、お父さんの所に合わせるず芪暩が取られるかもしれないから、お母さんずしおやっぱり子䟛を匿っおしたうんです。子䟛に䌚えない父芪の自殺率は高いず蚀われおいたす。

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 そしお、お父さん、お母さんだけじゃないんです。おじいちゃん、おばあちゃんからも、孫を奪うんですよ。共同芪暩、共同監護であれば、お父さんお母さんのおじいちゃんおばあちゃん、こちらのおじいちゃんおばあちゃんず優しく育おられおいる。ずころが、どちらか䞀方、そしお片方に行くず芪暩が取られるから、絶察に合わせない、こういうような事になった時には、可愛い孫にもおじいちゃんおばあちゃんが䌚えなくなるんです。

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 そしお、䌚わせたくおも䌚わせられない、奪われたくないずいうお母さんは、母子家庭になっおしたいたす。そうするず生掻的にも倧倉なりたすよ。お父さんずしおは、逊育費ずいっおも子䟛に䌚えない逊育費ですから、それは非垞に䞍満になっおしたいたす。もし、共同逊育であれば、それは逊育費以䞊のお金を払おうずするでしょうし、おじいちゃん、おばあちゃんにしたっお、それはランドセルを買っおあげるずか、あるいは塟の費甚をかっおあげるずか、そういうような揎助もしおあげられるんです。母子家庭であれば、その生掻を支えるのは皎金ですよ。䜕にもいいこずないじゃないですか。

 阿郚総理、こういう様な状況の䞭で、今、率盎なご意芋をお聞かせ頂きたいず思いたす。

議長その前に、法務倧臣から。短くお願いしたすね。

山䞋貎叞法務倧臣

 前提ずしおお答え臎したす。今、ご指摘あったのは、面䌚亀流、子䟛ず䌚える暩利ず、それず芪暩あるいは居所であるずか、そういった教育監護を決める暩利、これは敎理しお考える必芁があるず考えたす。

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 芪暩に぀いおは、確かに、どちらかに決めなければならない、ずいうこずなので、居所であるずか、教育監護であるずか、そういったものは単独芪暩ずいう、そういった立法理由があるずいうこずを、ご説明申し䞊げたした。

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 他方で、䌚える䌚えないの面䌚亀流の暩利に぀きたしおは、䟋えば先皋ご玹介いたしたしたずおり、平成幎の民法改正におきたしお、そういった協議の際にですね、明瀺的に面䌚及びその埌の亀流あるいは監護に芁する費甚の分担ずいう必芁な事項を、協議離婚の際に協議で定めるず、協議が敎わなければ裁刀所が定めるずいう颚に、明文の民法で蚘茉しおいるずいうこずを、たずは、ご指摘させお頂きたいず考えおおりたす。

議長阿郚総理。質問されたす、䞲田さん。

䞲田誠䞀衆議院議員

 埌でたたもう䞀぀最埌に質問させお頂きたすけれど、実はですね、倖囜も非垞に苊劎しおるんです。

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 アメリカもカリフォルニアから始たりたした。そしおその時、やはり単独だったんですよ。それが幎、ゞェヌムス・クックずいう人、これ共同監護の父ず呌ばれおるんですが、共同監護法ずいうのが成立したしお、今、衆でそれが適甚されおいたす。

 ドむツも実は単独芪暩だったんです。ずころが幎に連邊憲法裁刀所が違憲の刀決をしたもんだから、囜の䞭で共同芪暩ぞず法敎備をしおいったんです。

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 どこの囜も苊劎しおるんです。それは、だっお、別れるずいう状況で円満に話をするずいうこずはなかなか難しい。だけど子䟛の暩利ずしお、子䟛はどちらがそれが幞せなのかずいうこずで、䞖界が知恵を出し合っお䜜ったのが、子どもの暩利条玄じゃないですか。だから、日本も、これを批准をしたんじゃないですか。

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 私はね、私の考えを抌し付けようず思っおるわけじゃないんです。䞖界がやっおるから真䌌しようず蚀っおるわけじゃないんです。日本自身が幎に、この条玄を締結をし、それを守っおないずいうこずで囜連から再䞉勧告を受けおんじゃないですか。これを守るずいうのは、囜の責務ずしお必芁だず私は思いたす。

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 そしお昚幎ですね、ハヌグ条玄の䞍履行報告ず認定されたした。これは、子の連れ去りに぀いお、他の囜から日本に連れ去るずいうこずなんですけれど、どうしおそういったようなこずが暪行するかずいえば、日本は連れ去りが䞀番有効な手段だずいう颚なこずで、倖囜からも連れ去られおいく。

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 そしお、それをアメリカは日本を非難したした、非垞に。この、䞍履行囜ずいう非難ですよ。このずきの単語は、アブダクションですよ。これ拉臎じゃないですか、拉臎の垞習囜っおいう認定をアメリカからされたのず同じなんですよ。こういうような意味でね、先ほど倖務倧臣は条玄に反しおないず蚀いたしたけど、それは囜が反しおいるかどうかずいうこずではないんです。アメリカずしおは反しおいるず思っおる、ペヌロッパずしおは反しおるず思っおる。これは謙虚に、こういったようなこずを芋習っおいく必芁が私はあるず思うんです。

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 これね、安倍政暩を批刀しおるわけじゃないんです。この条玄を締結したのは幎、連立内閣の時だったんですよ。自公政暩も、できなかったんです。民䞻党政暩も、できなかったんです。なぜかっおいったら、すごく倧倉な䜜業なんです。これはね、連れ去りをすれば、凊分を、刑事眰をしなきゃいけない、だけど䞀方で被害者も守っおいかなきゃいけないんです。それを、䞀生懞呜、囜が知恵を出し合っお他の囜はやっおるんだけど、日本は珟堎に䞞投げ。だから珟状維持になっおしたうので、連れ去りが暪行しおしたうんです、連れ去りが䞀番有効な手段になっおしたうんです。

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 安倍総理、どうでしょう、今ね、この日本を支える若者がどういう若者がいいのか、考えお頂きたいんです。䞀方では、双方の芪から、色んな事情で別れ離れになっおも、双方の芪から、逊育を受けるずいう、そういう子䟛がこの日本を支える方がいいのか、それずも、あなたの父芪は悪い男なんだよ、そういう颚にしお実の芪を憎むような子䟛が倧きくなっお、この日本を支えた方がいいのか。安倍総理、この条玄を締結した以䞊は、決断、囜民が芋おる前で、はっきりず、この条玄に遵守するような法改正ぞず進むずいうこずを、明蚀しおいただけないでしょうか。

議長安倍内閣総理倧臣。

安倍内閣総理倧臣

 条玄䞊のですね、この日本が、矩務を果たしおいるか、遵守しおるかどうかずいうこずに぀いおは、河野倧臣からお答えさせお頂きたしたし、たた、政府の立堎に぀いおは、山䞋法務倧臣からですね、答匁させお頂き、芪暩ずは別に、芪の面䌚の件に぀いおは、そうした察応をしおるずいうこずを、答匁させお頂きたした。

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 䞀方ですね、䞲田議員の話を聞いおいお、聞いおいるず、なるほどもっずもだな、ずいう気もしおくるわけでございたしお、子䟛ずしおはですね、やっぱお父さんにも䌚いたいしお母さんにも䌚いたいず、お母さんお父さんにも䌚いたいずいう、それはそういう気持ちなんだろうなっおいうこずは、よく私も理解できたす。この問題に぀いおは、囜䌚の議論の状況等も螏たえたしお、今日も議論がございたしたが、民法を所管する法務省においお、呚知怜蚎させたいず思いたす。

議長䞲田さん。

䞲田誠䞀衆議院議員

 はい、安倍総理も色々悩みがあるかず思いたすので、ぜひずも我が党の未来共創ラボに入䌚をしお頂きたす。そうすれば、隣のですね浊野議員が心枩たる返答されるず思いたす。是非ご怜蚎頂きたいず思いたす。時間になりたしたので、私の質問は終わりたす。ありがずうございたす。

議長これにお、䞲田さんの質疑は終了臎したした。

反蚳䜜成日幎月日

本反蚳䜜成者絆https://www.kizuna-cpr.org/

関連アヌティクル「日本囜最高裁刀所は、囜内の子の連れ去りが、憲法、子どもの暩利条玄、ハヌグ条玄の理念に違反するずの問題提起に察し、これを審理刀断しない無芖するずの刀断を瀺した」

https://www.kizuna-cpr.org/supreme-court-of-japan-not-judging

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